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go her regional SNP MSP who was interested in the matter rather than through her constituency MSP

And this is the strength om Multi-member contituencies. Suppose you care pasionately about debt relief for the developing world, but your MP doesn't. Or perhaps you object to a government policy, but your MP is of the government party - or even in the government -- I've been in both situations; it's a total waste of time. There is always an alternative representative. And, as you say, the parties parachute candidates in, so the "local bonds" argument is also errant nonsense.

Regarding the list system, the problem, to my mind, is voting for a party not a person. It's a person that will represent you, not a party. And for manupulation of party lists systems look at the SNP and Margo MacDonald's place on the Lothian list.

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I'm all for enacting a law saying that you have to have been normally resident in the constituency you're planning to represent for not less than twelve months before you're allowed to stand for that seat.

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Hum. My mother wouldn't have been able to stand in the unwinnable seat she stood in under that rule, having only been asked to do so (and able to do so) about two months ahead of time. While she's probably going to be moving to somewhere in the area in the next couple of years, there's no guarantee she'd find or want to find a house within the exact constituency she stood for.

The alternative in that case this year would have been no LibDem candidate, and given she got 20% of the vote without huge effort I think that would have been unfair on the LibDem voters. While I think that the local party concerned could have been more organised, it's actually quite hard to get people committed enough to stand for parliament at all. I think forcing them to move house every time they're asked to stand in an unwinnable seat is a bit much. (Winnable seats are a different matter).

As there are a lot more people standing for seats they won't win than people standing with a chance of winning, your suggestion would simply reduce the number of candidates in every seat, and the ability for people to register "protest" votes.

Living somewhere for a year doesn't magically make you a perfect expert on it, it's a lot more to do with how much effort you are willing to put in to learn from the locals, and your commitment to move to the area if you do well. I'd also say it was living in the *area* not the exact constituency that mattered, and your ability/willingness to be available to your constituents.

Both my parents have represented council wards they don't live in for 15+ years. My dad moved into his ward after the divorce, but before that they were both living in a village five miles away. Not a huge barrier when you visit the relevant town nearly every day, and you have regular surgeries, and your constituents have your phone number and postal address (and email address these days).

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People don't *have* to vote for them. Indeed, the tory candidate was probably somewhat disadvantaged by being the only candidate who didn't live in Cambridge this time round.

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It's a person that will represent you, not a party.

I don't see that the list system is so much worse than the current setup, since in practice currently (as you point out) quite often the person is representing the party rather then you.

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A pure list system is odious, because it secures the place of odious party hacks very, very efficiently. (Are you going to vote against the party whos policies best suit you just because the #2 candidate on their list is an odious arsehole?)

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Also a problem with the current system. Do you vote for the friendly Tory or the unlikeable Lib Dem? (Not that this was a problem in any recent election for me, mind.)

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Err, no, it's a different problem. Both systems have problems, but they're not the same problem.

The "nice person, nasty party" problem is fairly fundamental to a party politics system, but the "list" problem, is "I like Labour #3 more than anyone else in the country, but really really hate Labour #2, and there is no way of showing this with my vote" In your problem *you* can decide whether for you "nice tory">"nasty libdem" and vote accordingly, in a list situation you can't.

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I would vote for the nice Tory if I really loathed the LibDem - better to have a rebel in a party I don't support than a git in the party I do.

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And, in practice, most people vote for a party most of the time, even if the ballot paper preserves the fond delusion that they're voting for a person.

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Becasue, at the monent, you have no other choice. However, in last 2 generals (before this one) I voted for one Tam Dalyell, Bart. I did not vote for him becasue he was labour, but becasue he was Tam, and I trusted him. I'd like to be able to do that more often.

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I don't see that multimember constituencies do that much better, and I don't regard the Condorcet problem as a terribly attractive thing either.

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Why not? Say we have 6 seats going. I can choose 3 because I trust the the candidates; then I can allocate my other votes on a party basis -- if I so choose. But I'm not compeled, as I am at the moment, to chose one of N. The value of rejection in an electoral system should not be underestimated.

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Have a RON list? :-)

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i am coming to see condorcet cycles not as a bug, but as a feature.

-m-

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What are condorcet cycles?

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There is no Condorcet winner if A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A. This is called a voting cycle. (It is also called a voting paradox because the collective ranking can be circular even if each voter has non-circular preferences.)

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Actually no, I'm convinced that most people vote against a party rather than for one. Tactical voting is probably the most invidious effect of First Past The Post, because where there are more than two contenders in the vote the whole business becomes one of affecting the voters' perception of who might win. "Only I can beat the Wombat Party candidate" is (with appropriate substitutions) a very common rallying cry, and it doesn't matter if it's untrue; if enough voters believe that it is true, then it becomes true.

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Of course, this could be countered by actually letting people vote against a party. Say "you can either have a yes vote or a no vote" and add up the number of yeses and subtract the number of Nos. It's a bit depressing to think we have a country that would vote against rather than for, but as it happens anyway, this would take away the squew of "guessing who the second candidate will be"

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In the last election, every constituency in the country had at least one candidate worth voting against.

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October