emperor | (no subject)

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In the light of the previous entry (and a certain confusion that maybe I was interested in the ethics of washing up)... Consider the National Lottery. Assume that the machines all function perfectly,and there is no fraud in the system:
[Poll #736634]

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But just because it's fair doesn't mean that it's a good thing.

Err, eh? Do you mean "is the national lottery fair"? Among the players only, or among the player and the operators, or amone everyone in the country, or what?

I mean "is the National Lottery fair?". You may interpret that as you wish :)

Given that freedom, I clickied "no", because Camelot takes far too great a proportion of the stake, and I'm far from convinced they were awarded the franchise in a transparently fair way.

Oh I love your icon

Of course the lottery is unfair, it's a tax on people who are bad at maths.

That may be; that doesn't mean that someone who is good at maths must necessarily conclude that it's a silly thing to do.

[ I believe in non-linear utility functions ]

It's a tax on hope.

I buy lottery tickets, erratically, and I do so, not because it's a good idea, but because were the one in a trillion (not a real number) to happen, the result would be so good. And because over the course of my life, the money I'd save by not playing is not significant.

That's pretty much my take on it. I average something like one every 4-6 months - perhaps less.

I think fairness in terms of the National Lottery is a bit different as it is an instance of gambling, whereas washing up is a social interaction. Hence no opinion on if the NL is fair (mainly because I'm not entirely certain if I think engaging in risk of one's own free choice is fair or not, although probably not) but one on the washing up. I don't think you can neatly separate number theory from the social surroundings ;)

Agreed.

I think that for these purposes I wish to interpret "fair" in a sense similar to the one I use as an editorial policy for my puzzle collection: a one-player game is fair if there is at all times a non-losing move which can be determined reliably from the information available at the time.

For the Lottery, that move is not to play, and it's the easiest thing in the world. Case closed.

In the absence of coercion, and in the presence of reasonably accurate information, it would be fair; I'm not sure that the existing arrangement, with manipulative advertising, mass hysteria, and misleading reporting, quite fits that definition.

I have a problem with the concept of 'fairness'. I'm not convinced it exists, and I'm not convinced it's desirable.

I think it exists, but is not useful as each person's measure of it has an often substantially different basis.

Yes, the NL is fair because one easy choice to make is not to play.

So far I am up on everybody I know, regarding the NL, except one; I have never bought a ticket and the person mentioned had one very sizable winnings.

Then again I have been party to a payout from the Awards For All part of the Lottery Fund. Well sort of, the TS received a grant to help pay for the Tolkien Weekend one year.

I've never bought a NL ticket either!

I suppose so. Doesn't make it a good thing, mind you. I rarely play, and I've only won £10 so far. It's all just a big media hype-fest, really. :P

Same comment as before.

It is a 'fair' game in that the rules are clearly stated and obeyed and you can chose not to play.

In is not however fair because the winnings in no way resemble the odds you are playing against and the house takes a ludicrous cut.

I didn't vote in response to the last one, having just found both the polls at once. But I think there must be factors to be taken into account, mustn't there? Randomness is rarely fair...

Participating in the National Lottery is a choice. In the previous situation, entering the lot to do the washing-up is not a choice...

The National Lottery is fair, in the sense that everyone who plays has the same chance per pound of winning something (expected 50% return).

fair. you pays your monies and you takes your chances.

dagonet

Whoah. Small world, stranger :-)

not so small- remember the coventry connection.

dagonet

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