Domesticity [Matthew's Journal]

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White goods. OK, not the most exciting subject in the world, but. We need some, specifically a washer/drier (of the condensing sort, I suspect), a dishwasher, and a fridge/freezer. I don't know much about such things other than a desire to get something that's a) reliable b) energy-efficient (at least they have letters for that bit!).

Some of you lot must have some knowledge in this department. If you could be so kind as to share it, I'd be grateful. I'd really like to know things like: brands to favour/avoid, good/bad shops (either based in Cov, or national chains), and any things you wished you'd known about such things and found out by painful experience!

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There are 36 comments on this entry. (Reply.)

You don't *need* a drier or dishwasher ;P But they are useful. Umm, I don't think I've ever bought white goods. Make sure the freezer has a flap to let water out while defrosting - or do they all have that nowadays?

Dishwashers are great for domestic harmony, IMAO :)

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My Zanussis seem to work nicely.

Wouldn't buy Hotpoint or Electrolux.

Miele is VERY nice but very expensive.

Wouldn't buy Hotpoint or Electrolux.

Why not, OOI?

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We have quite a lot of hotpoint stuff and it's never put a foot wrong, for what it's worth. They made our oven, dishwasher and washing machine, and our previous fridge/freezer which we upgraded for size and cosmetic and economy reasons but was still working perfectly after 10+ years. The replacement fridge/freezer is Bosch, and is also very good, and very quiet.

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Electrolux is built from ticky-tacky - v.fragile.

As for Hotpoint, an old Hotpoint washer-dryer was responsible for one of the more memorable "fzzzzt POP" moments in the house when its motor fried spectacularly.

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Seconded on the Zanussis - no problems with either the washing machine or the fridge-freezer since I bought them & they've got to be - what - 8 years old now?

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Don't buy product insurance, it's a rip-off.

Our strategy of buying the cheapest in the shop hasn't led to any disasters.

... oh, except that the washing machine has lots of counterintuitive settings I don't understand (like, eco-ultra only works with bio washing powder). While you have the instructions, work out which two settings you're likely to want and memorize them.

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"Buying the cheapest" (near enough) resulted in me getting an Indesit washing machine that was still going strong (if with a rather cranky door interlock) ten years later when I replaced with an Indesit washer/dryer. Which not only continued to fulfil the bottom-price-bracket but also had a better efficiency rating than brands twice as expensive.

As far as national chains go, my first, and possibly only, port of call (after confirming that John Lewis won't slum it to my budget) would be Comet. It may be unfair, but I wouldn't trust Argos delivery people to plumb kitchen appliances. And Currys are not getting my foot over their threshold, let alone any of my custom, again.

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White goods = feminine things? How interesting...

So we get the Curry story later? :-)

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Yes, our Indesit washing machine is still going strong, after at least two housemoves.

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And if you've got room, a separate washer and dryer seems more satisfactory than washer-dryers, which will only take small loads and (AIUI) have a reputation for catching fire when you're not at home. It looked a snazzy enough house that you could fit both in.

Freecycle or local ads papers have all this stuff, if £££ is a consideration.

Iceland (yes the frozen food people sell you the frosty cupboards for their chav produce)often have really good deals. So worth checking them out for bargins. I bought one from them about 5 years ago. My mother has it now. Still going strong and was 'B' labled on energy efficiency. At the time 'a' lables didn't often get awarded to combined fridge/freezers. Have no idea if it has improved.

Ditto dishwasher on the domestic harmony front. And can recommend getting a cleaner for same reason esp. if you are both working and one of you is doing lots of commuting. Save your energy for living not the hoovering, that's what I say!

Bosch (dishwasher & fridge freezer), and Candy (washing machine). Washing machine still going after 17 years.

And shops? I buy all white goods on-line these days, as the prices are much better. An the service really can't be worse, can it?

http://www.gooshing.co.uk/ for ethical/price comparisons.

Also Ethical Consumer has free online buyers guides, including one on fridge freezers: http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/magazine/buyers/buyguide.htm

John Lewis labels its products very clearly for the purposes of comparing energy efficiency, so its worth having a look there even if you don't plan to buy anything. We had a good experience with them but I've only ever bought one fridge freezer so have no basis on which to make a comparison.

(saw this on Fluffymarks friends page by the way - sorry to comment as a stranger but thought you might find this useful)

Thanks for commenting! :)

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Avoid Indesit dishwashers like the plague.

Only two makes of dishwasher got anything above "poor" in the reliablity things from Which when I looked - Bosch and Neff. And as Neff only make fitted things, there really isn't another option AFAIAC.

I've had reasonable success with Zanussi washer/driers. The first one lasted 8 years of fairly hefty (certainly careless) use.

Don't have a Hotpoint washing machine - especially washer/dryer. We have had several, all acceptable until the last one - which is crap. If you have room for separate washer and tumble dryer, get them separately; the combined ones, even the good ones, are more likely to have problems.

We always go to a little man in our locality who really knows his stuff. (He warned us about the hotpoint washer - we didn't listen...) When we recently replaced our freezer, he was full of info on which company actually makes this brand or that - reliability can change according to who has recently taken over who. We bought a freezer by Liebherr, seems very good so far, not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.

If you'd like to know who our supplier is, since we live fairly close to you, drop me an email :)

While my Bosch dishwasher did develop a minor fault, I was most pleased to be able to peruse an exploded diagram of it on Bosch's website, find the 6 quid switch that was faulty, and order a replacement. That approach does require you not to be scared of delving into machines which mix water and electricity, though...

My cheap washing machine, however, proved uneconomical to repair at something like 170 quid for a new motor, or 250 quid for a new machine. Afraid I can't remember the brand of the old one, but the new one appears to be an Indesit (bought on the sample size of 1 parental Indesit dishwasher which lasted for years). Parental Miele dishwasher also lasted and lasted.

I think white goods are probably like hard disks, though - for every manufacturer 5 people swear blind by, you'll find another 5 who won't touch them with a bargepole. :)

I would buy from John Lewis every time provided they have want I wanted. They a) have the price guarentee and b) offer a guarentee longer then the manufacturers for free.

If you are prepared to spend a little (I guess about £50-£100 over the cheapest possible price anywhere) more for reliability and enviromentality I would go with Bosch. Generally there's one near the bottom of the range which is good enviromentally wise and they are wonderfully reliable and they're customer service is good if it does break.

I *should* be able to remember the two brands to avoid like the plague due to horrible customer service (have friend who works in currys customer service so know somewhat about this). I believe the only one of the two which makes these is Hotpoint... will aim to check at some point.

Regarding the different makes cited above I suspect it is a case of 'luck' as to the question of getting a great machine or a lemon. However, when we had to look for a washing machine we found both Comet & Apollo2000 had handy notes for each machine of each type and these days they have to have 'green' efficiency details too (power & water consumption) so you can get details and weigh them up before purchasing. Also depending on what you buy, and if the offer is still on, there is a discount if you are exchanging one machine for another.

We have been very pleased with our Bosch washing machine and Bosch dishwasher. Both are AA or AAA rating, neither was overly expensive, and neither was bottom or top of the range. My mother's washing machine and dishwasher are also Bosch, they are older and have proved just as reliable.

Previously a very ancient Hotpoint washing machine just kept working and working until it started blowing fuses at which point it was probably pushing 20+ years and we got nervous.

We've still got the Philips 'fridge' I bought second hand in 1991. It has never gone wrong.

The Beko 'fridge'/freezer was bought about eight years ago and has given no problesm. It was at least A, maybe AA.

The Scandinova chest freezer bought over ten years ago has also given no problems.

Dishwashers are now considered more environmentally friendly than handwashing. I can't remember the source unfortunately. They are certainly more water efficient and you've still got to heat the water about the same amount, so I guess it is logical. The Summer 2006 issue of Naturalworld (journal by the Wildlife Trusts) says:
Dishwasher 4% of total household water use.
Kitchen sink 15%

Driers are considered to be about the least energy efficient of all household appliances. We've never had one and never missed it. I'd urge you to do without one if you possibly can.

Our Bosch fridge-freezer is pretty good, albeit the freezer frosts up VERY easily if you leave it open for any length of time.

Wouldn't recommend an Indesit washer-dryer though. Ours has needed several repairs, and I'm very glad I got a four-year all-repairs-covered warranty for it when the shop one ran out - that's paid for itself several times over, which should tell you all you need to know...

I bought my fridge and freezer for price (they're both Beko). Never had any problems. I suspect that fridge and freezer are both simple enough designs that they're not really going to go wrong. The washing machine is a Candy, picked because it was the cheaper of the two small-size machines (it goes in my bathroom, there's not enough space for a full-size one). No trouble from that, either.

As has also been mentioned, don't bother with the "extended warranty" insurance they'll try to sell you. Unless you're very short of cash, don't bother with the interest-free-credit deals either -- they're a faff to fill in at the till and a faff to make sure you pay up and cancel at the right time to avoid getting hit with an interest bill.

I don't see the point in the 'drier' part of washer/driers -- there was one at the flat I used to rent, and after one or two trial runs I gave up on it. If you care about energy-efficiency then hanging your washing up on a line/radiators is much more energy-efficient than running a drier!

OK, this is the second time recently I've heard someone warning about interest charges on interest-free credit. How exactly does that work?

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AIUI you get an interest-free period (e.g. 6 months or a year) but the default when that expires is to go onto an interest-loaded payment scheme. To avoid that you have to pay the full sum as soon as the interest free period expires but the companies tend to be unscrupulous and not remind you when the date's coming up so you have to be organised enough to remember and contact them yourself at the right time.

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As ixwin says, what you actually get is signed up to a finance scheme which defaults to no interest for x months and then gradual repayments with interest charged. You can pay in full at the end of the interest free period, but it's not a completely trivial thing to do and you have to actively keep track of the date to make sure you pay and close the finance account. I did this when I originally bought my fridge/freezer/etc, and although I did successfully pay off the full amount and wasn't charged interest, I decided it was just too much hassle for the amount of money it saved. So if you're an organised type and you really do have a short term cash crisis such that you can't pay 500 quid now but definitely will be able to in six months, go ahead. Otherwise, don't bother, is my advice.

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Oh, you might consider signing up for the 30 day free trial at www.which.co.uk so you can browse through their reports on dishwashers and so on. (Sadly they've fixed the bug where they showed the complete version of the page to google so you could just use google cache to look at them for free :-))

There is a good shop at the end of far gosford street (other end to city centre) that I used (at Warwick Accomodation) to use for cookers, but I don't know what else they carry. There are enough commercial parks around the city that finding major distributors that getting whatever brand shouldn't be a problem.

dagonet

Whichever brand you go on washer-drier, I would count as essential finding one with a decent hand-wash-only setting.

We've tended to buy Zanussi and have found them good. Though we now have the white goods which came with our house and I can't remember which brand they are and I'd rather not wake Sam right away in order to find out!!

We signed up for the free trial with Which (very helpful indeed) which lead us to getting:

Hotpoint fridge-freezer - Fridge freezers seemed fairly similar in reliability and efficiency so we went for one which had the features we wanted as well (shelves in sensible places, shiny wine rack).

Bosch washing machine - An absolute joy. Highly recommended. The important thing for us here (after the energy efficiency/reliability) was that it had quick cycles (normal cycle 47min) which is really handy.

Bosch dishwasher - Again had good marks for reliability. For us, it could have done with a bigger cutlery rack, but none of the other machines we looked at had bigger, I think we just use lots.

We got all our appliances online (on the assumption that service is crap anyway), from the following sites:
http://www.365electrical.co.uk/
http://www.redhillappliances.co.uk/
which we found by choosing the particular style of appliance we wanted then googling the style code. They were typically over £100 cheaper than the same model in comet/currys and had a better range of models. We found Redhill particularly helpful on the phone.

My next task is a replacement cooker, so if you do get the which trial I'd be interested in seeing their latest factsheet on gas cookers.

Assuming all goes to plan, give me a month to move house and you can have my washer for free. Just need to sort transport. It's not a drier, but it will be spare once I'm in the new place.

I forget - do either of you drive?

Our Miele washer / dryer is excellent; as is our Bosch dishwasher - bother are quieter, quicker and more efficent than their predecessors.

You don't need a dishwasher or a drier...

Our appliances are all about eight years old. We have a Bosch fridge and freezer. If you can afford the extra, get a frost-free freezer, it's so liberating never to have to defrost the thing. Our Siemens washing machine has only required special attention once, when a sock managed to find its way somewhere it shouldn't have.

(apparently Bosch and Siemens are the same company)

October