Excitement [Matthew's Journal]

We got back from a lovely holiday yesterday; more of that anon.

Today, the boiler was due its "annual"[1] safety inspection. It went roughly thus :

Gas man looks at boiler, pulls a face at its antiquity
Gas man opens boiler, sucks his teeth

Gas man sniffs boiler and declares "EPIC FAIL"[2]

atreic (who is home) has to sign a declaration that she understands that the boiler is IMMEDIATELY DANGEROUS (which means that if we refuse to allow immediate disconnection, our supplier has legal powers to force disconnection), and that attempting to reconnect it would be an offense under the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations, punishable by a fine not exceeding £5000.

The boiler is a Thorn M (which seems to be so old that there isn't anything much on the internet about it, hence the photos here for all you antique boiler fetishists). Boiler Man has confirmed that he can't get the necessary spares, so replacement is going to be necessary.

That's not so simple, however. The condemned boiler is a floor-mounted one, which are now illegal to install. As you will see from the photo below, there isn't room to put a wall-mounted one near where the current boiler is. Boiler Man looked around the house, and decided the only suitable external wall is one in the front bedroom, which will lose us at least one wardrobe.

So far, so good. However, new boilers use a pressurised system for their radiators. With the exception of the extension, our radiators are too old to cope with this without going pop, so will all need replacing. Boiler Man thinks this is about a week's work for him, and would cost around £3000. In the mean time, we have no hot water (except that provided by an immersion heater which may or may not work). Thankfully the shower heats its own water...

Boiler Man is busy this week, but could do the work next week. I suspect our landlord will drag his feet as much as he can, but hopefully the agents can be persuaded to expedite things anyway. I fear I may have to get stroppy...

[1] We're the first tenants, and I do wonder if the agents ever actually saw a certificate...
[2] The pilot system is faulty (we knew that, it kept going out!), and one of the valves is leaking

A couple more photos of the condemned boiler can be found in the gallery.

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A quick google says that a pilot which keeps going out is usually caused by a dodgy thermocouple, and that they're a doddle to change provided you can get hold of the right part. A leaky valve, OTOH, is Pretty Serious Stuff.

At least it's still vaguely summery...

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The boiler certainly sounds as if it was subject to a summery judgment. >;->

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The thermocouple has been replaced once already. And you're right, it was the valve that was the problematic bit, really.

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Fond memories indeed, of a chilly house and the ornamental fountain in the hallway...

Wow, it looks like something from Dad's Army or such...

Nah. Typeface on the internal instruction page is definitely not 1940s vintage.

Gosh, that's identical to the one my parents used to have. Many many years ago, and it was old then...

Exactly the same thing happened to me when I was renting for a year when I first moved to Coventry. Except that my house's boiler was condemned in February on a day with snow on the ground.

The condemned boiler is a floor-mounted one, which are now illegal to install.

As I (and somebody else) said on IRC, I'm pretty sure this is just plain false, so either there was a miscommunication or your boiler man is trying it on...

Hm. I wonder where I would check the facts on that.

Looks like you can still buy them, which would be strange if they were illegal to install:

http://www.idealboilers.com/mexico_he.html

A bit of googling (Floor mounted Boilers UK install) has found me

this page about boilers which doesn't say floor ones can't be installed. Brighton and Hove tell me that floor mounted are less efficient but not that you can't have them.

It's a bit tricky in

emperor's case because the boiler is next to the back door, and now I understand flues can't be close to a door (forget the distance exactly; I'm assuming there's a balanced flue outside

emperor's door). However my mother is in the same position - she's eligible for a subsidised boiler install, but the first government-appointed contractor couldn't supply floor mounted. She had a bit of faff to find another contractor who could supply (the Ideal Mexico HE24 as cited above) but has found one, though is waiting for results of the survey. There's going to be some work to the flue but there should be no need to move the boiler.

If you find out where boiler installation regulations can be had, can you let me know? For the past few years, our (5-year-old) boiler has been getting a clean bill of health on service but its flue and ventilation have been eliciting imprecise warnings.

Well, the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations are available online. DirectGov has a little on Building Regulations regarding boilers, but I can't get more details than that online. At least one plumber's website has a page discussing the new(ish) regulations. They suggest talking to your local council.

Oh, and if it's an open flue boiler (google doesn't say but at that vintage I wouldn't be too surprised) then you're well shot of it, IMHO.

On the plus side, having the boiler and all the radiators replaced is the Landlords responsibility and since the building could be considered to be inadequately heated until the work is carried out he would be obliged to have the work done immediately.

Where is your hot water cylinder? It might be worth getting it ripped out and a heat on demand boiler stuck in there instead.

In the airing cupboard upstairs (it's quite large). I'm not quite sure about the pros+cons of heat-on-demand boilers; I can't see the landlord going for one in any case!

Why not? My flat has a heat on demand boiler, so some landlords obviously go for them (and the landlords are the owners of the agency so have quite wide experience).

We've had a combi boiler at home for as long as I can remember. Well that's not quite true, I just about remember the one we had when we moved in '86.* I've never had a problem with them. My current boiler takes longer for water to run hot. I think this is because it only heats on demand whereas other ones kept a small amount warm. Certainly the system in Ainsdale had an option for Hot Water than had to be on before one could put the central heating on. I think the major disadvantage of combi boilers is that you don't have the tank the airing cupboard for drying clothes, proving bread and making wine.**

*I found something the other day which mum had written which mentioned how I had disliked the fact that my bed was over the old boiler and I was scared it was going to blow up and that they'd poo-poo'd this idea but actually when they had it replaced they learnt that my fears not hugely misplaced. I'd forgotten all about it until I read this.

**I think it was lack of airing cupboard that caused dad not to make wine after we moved in '86. Not making bread was more to do with mum working and having an iffy shoulder but she missed the airing cupboard as a location.

I can definitely recommend a heat on demand boiler!

Why? :-)

No need for bulky hot water tank.
All you can eat hot water (shower as long as you like).
Energy efficient (only heat the water you use).

Balancing the positives for a combi: you have lower hot water pressure (especially if mains pressure is low—and if it's too low you can't have one at all) and hard water is a more severe problem than normal. For these reasons, I'd be wary about having one in Cambridge (plus which, when we got our integrated-tank system fitted the engineer couldn't source a powerful enough pure combi). However, since you're not in Cambridge any longer….

Cos when we had a *bunch* of people staying at the HoLE for Edinburgh rehearsals, everybody could have hot showers (unlike last year, when there were generally only four a day...)

At least new boilers are more efficient (I think they're all condensing boilers now).

Heat on demand (combi boilers) are great. No messing around waiting for a big tank of water to heat up. My rented flat has one.

Balanced flue is a must these days.

Boiler in bedroom sounds unfun (noisey).

Would try to get someone else in to see what options they could come up with.

Just to add my fourpenn'orth:

My mother's house had a boiler in what was the dining room, because there was no suitable wall in the kitchen*. When my mother was unable to go upstairs, she slept in this room; which we were told - by the engineer who came to inspect for insurance cover - was not legal. He winked at it, because there really was nothing else to be done.

Now that I let the house, no one sleeps in that room. So - boiler in bedroom??

*The house has had 2 boilers, the current one, a wall boiler, is about 10 years old and in good nick.

My boiler's in the bedroom and none of the engineers have ever considered it a problem. It is a room sealed one though; I don't think I'd be too happy about sleeping in a room with an open flue boiler.

You rent. It is not your problem at all, your landlord has to get it sorted out, and in a reasonable time. Any problems with this contact the local environmental health, as having hot water and heating is not just covered by a tenancy agreement but is an unassailable right even if not mentioned in there, and cannot be withdrawn even if the tenancy agreement specifically does so.

The gas engineer was talking bollocks about the radiators needing pressurised system. That's assuming what would be put in is a combination boiler, which will remove the need for the hot water tank upstairs, and does function on a sealed system basis. However, if you replace with a conventional condensing boiler then it will continue to heat the hot water tank for DHW and the radiators using the current unsealed system with header tank up in the loft somewhere, which means not replacing the rads.

I've had combis, they are good until they stop and then you are left without either hot water or heating (unless you have a leccy shower, which at least gives you that as an option to have something other than a bloody freezing bath). I like the combi overall though as no hot tank to worry about, only me here most of the time so more efficient. Is a slight pain as I have to run off quite a bit for kitchen sink to get hot water to there due to the run of pipe and the boiler heating water from cold. Combi's are also way overspecced on the CH side due to having to heat water on demand so are excellent at keeping a house as warm as you could ever want and can heat them up faster.

But again, not your problem, landlord's problem, and if he drags feet, investigate local environmental health. They take a dim view of such things.

Matthew's Journal

Excitement

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October