posted by [identity profile] antinomy.livejournal.com at 08:11am on 10/05/2005
I think you're missing something fairly key here - one of the effects, and indeed, I think, one of the original aims of the way we vote in this country is that people who are either fully or functionally illitterate can vote without any problems - you recognise the party icon, and you make a cross. Easy.

These people will rather fall into your 'Can't be bothered to educate myself' category. I don't think we have any right to nick these people's votes, and the more complex the system, the more that's exactly what we're doing, whether we put them through multi-guess exams or not.

And before you say 'but hardly anyone's illiterate in this country' think again. Think of the number of kids who leave school with no qualificiations. Think how many more there were thirty or so years ago. I always come back to something we were told in a 'how not to get sued' session at the vet school - that you should be reading the consent form to all your clients, because a good proportion of them won't actually be able to read it.
 
posted by [identity profile] atreic.livejournal.com at 08:44am on 10/05/2005
Ok, this is obviously one of the edge cases I couldn't think of, and they should be allowed to go and do the test by talking to people. (How does recognising the logo work if they want to vote for independants in the current system, BTW?)
 
posted by [identity profile] antinomy.livejournal.com at 08:49am on 10/05/2005
Most illitterate people recognise word-shapes.

By doing it orally, they lose their secret ballot.

I'm really not at all sure this is the point, though. We have no right to ask people, literate or otherwise, to jump through hoops for their vote. Universal suffrage should mean just that. Not universal suffrage of clever people, or educated people, or people who are engaged in politics, or of people with views we aggree with. Just universal.

Most people who don't care don't vote, in any case. And I'm sure your BNP / UKIP / random loony party voters would have passed your test, because they *do* care, and *are* engaged with the issues.
 
posted by [identity profile] atreic.livejournal.com at 08:58am on 10/05/2005
Err, the test happens completely seperately to the vote. You earn your right to vote, and then you can go off and vote on a piece of paper just as you always did.

And I'm not arguing against the engaged right-wingers. I'm probably arguing most about the people who think New-Labour are Labour, but I wasn't arguing anything in specific. I'm arguing against the people who don't have a clue what they're voting for. The "I don't know anything about their policies, but the Sun said..." or the "my husband always told me to vote for.." etc etc etc. I don't care if people disagree with me politically. But I do want them to know what they're doing, and to vote for the party they actually "agree with"/"think they're voting for".

I think we (and me and Emp) just fundamentally disagree. I think that letting people who don't have a clue and just randomly tick boxes based on 30 year old information is bad for the country, and devalues the idea of democracy and the vote, and you think that everyone should be able to vote easilly, regardless of whether or not they have a clue what they're voting for.

And yes, this was just a mad idea I jotted down in a comment at 8am in the morning, and of course I'd never want it implimented in practise because giving the government that sort of power is a Bad Thing. But I honestly think people who don't know anything about what they're voting for shouldn't go out and randomly tick boxes that affect everyone.
 
posted by [identity profile] atreic.livejournal.com at 08:49am on 10/05/2005
How does the theory test deal with illitterate people? ("I don't know" is a fair answer to this...) Or are you happy with the idea they shouldn't be allowed to drive but should be allowed to vote?

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