posted by
emperor at 12:29pm on 19/10/2005
[Poll #593686]
...does what it says on the tin. Dimmer switches.
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I believe energy saving lightbulbs generally have a longer life than normal lightbulbs also, but I don’t know where I got that from.
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http://www.commercial-lamps.co.uk/acatalog/Low_voltage_spotlights.html
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If so, yes, you can get them - IKEA sell them.
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It's all so random!
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...if you like strobe lights...
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Another point to consider..
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I would think that the dimmer switch would last better if just clicked.
Also, if just clicked, the lightbulb would be on for slightly less time (you'd switch it off almost instantly rather than taking 2 seconds to do so), and would therefore use less energy. That's the only apparent difference in energy use that I can see.
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That's the sort I'm most familiar with too. I've seen the other sort (both ones with a conventional switch and ones where the dimmer knob clicks in and out) but have not used them. Although I suppose the weird panel switch I used to have in Cardiff counts. With that you either tapped it on and off or pressed gently to dim/undim. I have to admit to tapping it on and off because it was easier. A short tap worked whereas to do it gradually you had to make sure you didn't touch it too hard to start with. The really shiny thing about that light switch though was the remote control!
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1. So up to the point that you come to turn the light off, energy use is the same for both cases. If you then turn the switch off, energy use stops, whereas when you turn the dial down a small amount of energy is used until you turn off the light. Therefore dimming and turning off uses fractionally more energy. However, when you come to turn it on again you save the same amount of energy in the dimmed down state (provided you dim up and down at the same rate). But the circuit will use a very small amount of energy to drive the transistors in the dimmer. So the answer is turning it off immediately saves a tiny fraction of energy, namely the energy consumed by the during the period of dimming down and up. Dimming the switch to minimum before turning it on and off uses a minimal amount of extra energy.
2. Light bulbs burn out when the tungsten in a section of the filament evaporates away so much that there's a break. Switching on from cold means more current is drawn because cold filaments have more resistance, but the warming up happens very quickly. This surge can cause the bulb to blow (it's why bulbs often blow when you turn the light on). You would think that turning up the dimmer slowly is like a soft-start device such as a thermister, which will extend the life of the bulb, but we're chopping the current, rather than reducing the current draw, so a dimmer is a very poor soft-start device. And good slow-start thermistors only minimally extend the life of bulbs anyway. So dimming the switch to minimum before turning it on and off will result in a minimal life extention for the bulb.
That's what I think, anyway.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimmer
http://freespace.virgin.net/tom.baldwin/bulbguide.html#mll
but support what keirf said.
My dimmer fantasy was presumably drawn from the days of rheostats: until I looked it up, I always felt leaving a dimmer on half was wasting something.
I wouldn't wager money on these, but it seems fairly clear that if you want to worry, worry about replacing them with something else, the dimmer isn't very important.
ETA: dumb_soprano claims anecdotal evidence that dimming *does* help not blow bulbs. OK, maybe we need to go beyond lj, go beyond google, and actually try something!
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Since you are worried about energy efficiency and using the spots, I'm fairly sure that higher wattage bulbs tend to be more efficient than the lower wattage equivalents.
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Agreed, for normal domestic use the improvement in bulb life from dimming it on rather than turning it on abruptly is way less than in stage or disco lighting, but I've heard guesstimates of around 20%. Whether or not that's a useful improvement is subjective.
Yes, the dimmer itself will be consuming a little power when dimmed, but it's also consuming a little power when the light is fully on. But I suspect resistance in the cable from switch to bulb loses more power than that once the house wiring's a decade old. (-8
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I = V/R
This is, of course, entirely inaccurate if tungsten is a semiconductor :P
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If you need convincing, think about lights that don't have dimmer switches, and note that they burn out when being switched on much more often than they burn out in use.
Personally, I favour the kind of dimmer that one rotates fully anticlockwise to turn off, for precisely this reason.
As for energy saving, I doubt it makes much difference, except of course that light bulbs themselves cost energy to make, and you'll save some of that if you make them last longer. Arguably you save a little energy if you turn the light on gradually, simply because it's on fully for marginally less time. But then you counteract the saving if you turn it off gradually. (-8
What is inefficient, though, is leaving the lights dimmed. Incandescent bulbs aren't terribly efficient at the best of times, of course, but when dimmed an even greater proportion of the energy they consume is emitted as heat. If you find yourselves always keeping the lights dimmed, change to lower-wattage bulbs.
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I think this is a bogus argument. Lights burn out on startup because of the inrush current for a cold lightbulb. Unless you can show that a dimmer switch on maximum dim limits the current sufficiently to keep the inrush current from taking out the weak spot in the filament, you haven't proved that you get any fewer bulb-blows-at-switchon incidents with the start-dim strategy. (And the Internet Light Bulb Book reckons that even if you do keep the weak spot from blowing now, it's still weak and you can't prolong its life by very much.)
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Yes, if the filament has a weak spot, limiting the stress you put it under will only postpone the bulb blowing. However, always dimming the bulb up instead of switching it on abruptly will help prevent those weak spots developing in the first place.
As has been noted before, it's not a terribly major effect, but it's there. And we were only asked what the effect was, not how significant it was. (-8
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Yes, but the key word is 'sufficiently'. Clearly the current goes down, but does it go down enough? Anyway, enough of this pointless pedantry :-)
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For the second one, turning off immediately uses less energy than adjusting to minimum and then turning off because you turn off sooner. Once off, you can adjust to minimum for the next time it's turned on.
For the third, you missed the option that states I know a lot about electrical stuff, and know my answers may not be correct.
D
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Personally I find the cost of running standard 60W or 100W bulbs is so low, I don't tend to worry about it. Having said that, I do generally turn lights off when not in use.
An often-underestimated threat to bulb life is the design of a lampshade. Bulbs running too hot because they are 'too enclosed' will burn out much more quickly. (This is one reason why you shouldn't exceed the max wattage rating printed on the lampshade - you could end up with meltiness, or a fire!) If you ever find a particular light in the house keeps blowing, it's often worth checking how hot the bulb and its surroundings are getting.
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If you were to dim the light before switching it on and switch if off whilst at full-on. The bulb would be at full brightness for less time, so you'd save energy that way...
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I answered after doing a quick google which found me The Great Internet Light Bulb Book which reckons it doesn't really make much odds.
But then I read the comments where you mention that it's a halogen bulb, and supposedly for those soft-start does make a difference. So maybe I should go back and change my answer...
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1. 90%
2. slowly
3. lighting techie.
dagonet